A quote used to make a point was “Exodus 21:15 informs us that one may choose a life of slavery over freedom.”–Not a valid quote!
Shalom: What things in our lives are we allowing to enslave us to keep us from freedom? Fears, Resentments, Ego, Selfishness, Pursuit of Money and ‘Stuff”? Blessings
In response to the invalid quote:
I wrote: It is horrible that the shepherds should mis-qoute the LAW. “Exodus 21:14 And if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from Mine altar, that he may die. 15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. 16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.”….. Nothing even remotely like presented above. Seek the TRUTH.
Respondent wrote; shalom: in rabbinic-talmudic judaism, it is well accepted by those who concider themselves to be such, that the TaNaK, the Torah, without rabbinic commentary and explanation, ie the mishna and gemora forming the talmud, do not stand by themselves alone. traditionally, this form of judaism, which is what most calling them ‘jews’ today practice, accept the ‘oral law’ as co-equal to ‘written law’, and both , traditionally, were given to moses on sinai, from G!D….now during the formation of talmudic rabbinic judaism during galut on babylon (iraq/iran), those who believed and used the Torah only, in the ancient religion call Hebraism, would agree with you. there religion basically died when the temple in jerusalem was destroyed in 70 ce and the one in Leontopolis (6 miles north of cario) was destroyed in 72 ce. it exists still in kariates, who use torah only, and nothing talmudic….as far as the concept of ‘truth’ is concerned, when you have the time to spend 7.5 years of talmud study, you’ll learn that judaically, since G!d in infinite, there are infinite truths, ie interputations. as the talmud teaches ‘both THIS and THAT are the wordS of the Living G!d’. i am not hear to debate you, only to explain the difference between what is today normative rabbinic judaism, and karaism. if you are more comfortable with written torah only, check out karaism. they are very welcoming people, part of the greater jewish family, and due things according to torah, such as having no passover seders, but yes, slaughter lambs and painting their door posts in blood, or sitting in their homes with no heat or a/c for 25 hours each shabbat (as they dont have the talmudic rules of eruv), etc. shalom …
I wrote: , one of us according to the Tanakh is very lost. My evidence says . . . . – 0 + ? Good Shepard or bad?
Respondent rabbis are not shepherds and jews are not sheep. i’d make a rotten shepard. jews are taught to think for themselves. if you followed the TaNaK alone, please tell me what the TaNaK tells you to do on the first of tishri, and on the tenth, and please tell me if you do this. btw kariates do. so i dont argue with someone of a different religion or sect. judaism teaches that G!d has granted prophets (shepards as you call them) to every nation, ie religion, of the world. all are co-equal to moshe. what G!d denies to one, he allows for another. so if you wish to be a kariate, that’s fine with me. i am happy being a talmudic rabbinic jew and rabbi. in fact the talmud tells us in tractate derek eretz, not to discuss religion with a hebraist, as if leads to no where accept unlovingness. so i love all. and that’s is that. shalom, and best of luck.
I wrote: I didn’t want to say it but you did: ” all are co-equal to moshe” is the arguement used in the story of Korah(Numbers 16), and we know how that one turned out. Not well. Sheep?: 2 Samuel 24:17 or 1 Chronicles 21:17 And David said unto God: ‘Is it not I that commanded the people to be numbered? even I it is that have sinned and done very wickedly; but these sheep, what have they done? let Thy hand, I pray Thee, O LORD my God, be against me, and against my father’s house; but not against Thy people, that they should be plagued.’ — an analogy for the Children of Israel and Judah throughout the Tanakh, for those leading and those that blindly follow. Hence if you are a leader of the JEWS you are a shepard, at least as for as THE ALMIGHTY is concerned. We are out of time. Shalom.
Respondent: rabbis are not leaders of jews. we teach. we teach others how to learn and decide for themselves. my post was about letting go of ego. read tractate pesachim. its all about releasing from the bondage of self. as out of time. shalom.
I wrote: If only that were the truth, that anyone can declare that others must listen and adhere to my words (teaching) and then have NO RESPONSIBILITY for the outcome. According to the Covenant at the Mount(Exodus 20-24),) paraphrased: if you steal a thing you must repay double. If you steal a person, you pay with your life. If you cause by guile and misdirection the loss of a soul, what do you think the God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob will do? To say that I or we are not responsible, means that you don’t understand the GOD about which you speak or the consequences. The source of your’s or my soul knows everything we do. And has promised to repay in kind our actions. So either Moses and the Writings of Moses are correct OR you have nothing to worry about. I personally do not want to be in that position. So I only speak and write about what the Master of the UNIVERSE has declared via HIS prophets for 4,000 years. That is where my trust and protection is from. Maybe you should reconsider your position on your words and deeds. Shalom.
Rereading the conversation here I see that you do not know this statement: “Ezekiel 34:2 ‘Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, even to the shepherds: Thus saith the Lord GOD: Woe unto the shepherds of Israel that have fed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the sheep? 3 Ye did eat the fat, and ye clothed you with the wool, ye killed the fatlings; but ye fed not the sheep. 4 The weak have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought back that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force have ye ruled over them and with rigour. . . .”
If you need it in Hebrew try: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1234.htm. If you tell people, Children of Israel how and what to do, you are one of which this and other passages speak. Personally I worry about what I say and have done so for as long I can remember, not wanting to be responsible for leading anyone else to harm. Shalom.
If you need it in Hebrew try: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1234.htm. If you tell people, Children of Israel how and what to do, you are one of which this and other passages speak. Personally I worry about what I say and have done so for as long I can remember, not wanting to be responsible for leading anyone else to harm. Shalom.
Other prophets and some of the references by The ALMIGHTY to the Sheep of HIS FLOCK follow:
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1056.htm Isaiah 56:10 His watchmen are all blind, without knowledge; they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; raving, lying down, loving to slumber. 11 Yea, the dogs are greedy, they know not when they have enough; and these are shepherds that cannot understand; they all turn to their own way, each one to his gain, one and all.
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1110.htm Jeremiah 10:21 For the shepherds are become brutish, and have not inquired of the LORD; therefore they have not prospered, and all their flocks are scattered.
Jeremiah 12:10 Many shepherds have destroyed My vineyard, they have trodden My portion under foot, they have made My pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1123.htm Jeremiah 23:2 Therefore thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, against the shepherds that feed My people: Ye have scattered My flock, and driven them away, and have not taken care of them; behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD. . . .
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1125.htm Jeremiah 25:34 Wail, ye shepherds, and cry; and wallow yourselves in the dust, ye leaders of the flock; for the days of your slaughter are fully come, and I will break you in pieces, and ye shall fall like a precious vessel.
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1150.htm Jeremiah 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep; their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains; they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their resting-place. 7 All that found them have devoured them; and their adversaries said: ‘We are not guilty’; because they have sinned against the LORD, the habitation of justice, even the LORD, the hope of their fathers.
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1234.htm Ezekiel 34:2 ‘Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, even to the shepherds: Thus saith the Lord GOD: Woe unto the shepherds of Israel that have fed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the sheep? 3 Ye did eat the fat, and ye clothed you with the wool, ye killed the fatlings; but ye fed not the sheep. 4 The weak have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought back that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force have ye ruled over them and with rigour.
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1237.htm Ezekiel 37:24 And My servant David shall be king over them, and they all shall have one shepherd; they shall also walk in Mine ordinances, and observe My statutes, and do them. 25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob My servant, wherein your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, they, and their children, and their children’s children, for ever; and David My servant shall be their prince for ever.
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2310.htm Zechariah 10:3 Mine anger is kindled against the shepherds, and I will punish the he-goats; for the LORD of hosts hath remembered His flock the house of Judah, and maketh them as His majestic horse in the battle.